After being an accredited media person in 2009 (as a research assistant) and in 2011 and 2012 (for my work on this here project), our application for a media pass in 2013 has been rejected.
Apparently, while our work is 'enjoyable' - their word, not mine - it does not merit a media pass.
We will still receive a season pass via our work for the FFV's historical committee, but that won't get South of the Border into the round four match against the Thunder, which will of course be behind closed doors.
So at this stage, it looks like we'll be joining the rest of great unwashed who will be watching this game from the supposed vantage point on the freeway. Such is life.
South Melbourne Hellas blog. Now in its Sunday league phase.
Thursday, 28 March 2013
Tuesday, 26 March 2013
Monday, 25 March 2013
Draw made for fourth round of Dockerty Cup
And wouldn't you know it, the only all VPL clash is between South and Oakleigh. No need to get too excited yet though, the tie is scheduled for May.
Saturday, 23 March 2013
Friendly against Altona Magic tomorrow
3:00 PM afternoon kick off, at Lakeside. Once again, match chat in the comments section after the game.
Friday, 22 March 2013
Thursday, 21 March 2013
Where the hell did that come from?
South Melbourne Mariners? Central Coast Lakers? South East Central Coast Melbourne Magic Spectres?
Before we get stuck into this, here's the offending article from the World Game site, followed by commentary from several related sources.
Ray Gatt, chief soccer writer from the Sydney Morning Herald
They've also released a statement on the matter.
PFA MEDIA RELEASE
That a South takeover or relocation was to be used or is going to be used, or has been used as a way of forcing a resolution to the longstanding issues with regards the ownership of Central Coast Mariners. Somebody somewhere at FFA headquarters got fed up with 'the Russians are coming' rumours, and this is how this situation has been resolved.
The best part of all of this
That so many people were caught out this, I suppose rather like our entry into the Singapore Cup a few years back, albeit here on a much funnier scale.
My ultimate position, for future reference
The only acceptable solution for any theoretical South Melbourne A-League bid, is
Whatever the end result of this is
That was the most fun I've had over a three hour period for a long time. Aussie soccer delivers the goods again, and long may it continue to do so.
Before we get stuck into this, here's the offending article from the World Game site, followed by commentary from several related sources.
A majority of the Central Coast Mariners board has agreed to sell the club to a Melbourne-based consortium, consisting of three South Melbourne directors, for $4 million.
The World Game understands the deal was agreed on Wednesday, with a 10 percent deposit due on Thursday.
It was reported in The Australian that a member of the Mariners board flew to Melbourne on Wednesday to meet with an interested party, while a Russia-based investor is still keen to pump $15 million into the club and its valuable land assets.
It is believed key Mariners investors, chairman Peter Turnbull, Lyall Gorman and Mike Charlesworth, who own a combined 64 percent stake in the club, had been stalling with a view to wooing the Russian group.
The new arrangement would see the Mariners relocate up to four of their home matches - those perceived to draw the lowest gate - to Melbourne.
The news is set to come as a relief to the embattled playing group, which has been embroiled in a dispute with the club over unpaid wages. The existing Mariners board met with representatives of Professional Footballers Australia (PFA) on Thursday afternoon in an attempt to resolve the matter.
Football Federation Australia (FFA) is yet to ratify the agreement but is believed to be satisfied with the nature of the deal.
Mariners coach Graham Arnold praised the attitude of his players in a torrid week of speculation that culminated in reports they were prepared to take strike action if their wage demands were not met.
“It’s been a tough week for the players,” Arnold said. “But they are a great bunch of boys and the leadership group has done a great job of keeping them all together.”
“Today is the first day that I have seen them because I gave them a few days off, but morale is high.”
“Before training the Peter Turnbull and Mike Charlesworth had a chat to them over loudspeaker on the phone to inform them what’s going on and I think that’s relaxed a lot of the players.”
“On the football side of it the players have a job to do. I have a job to do as coach and we’ve just got to get on with things. We’ve got a big game against Adelaide this weekend and we’ll make sure we’re ready for it.”
Arnold said he has confidence in the club’s capacity to rectify its ownership and financial issues.
“There has to be a resolution and I am pretty sure that it will be sorted out quite quickly,” he said.
“There’s no hiding the fact Peter Turnbull has publicly asked before for new investment in the ownership. It’s probably come to the stage now where something has to happen.”
Ray Gatt, chief soccer writer from the Sydney Morning Herald
Can tell you with absolute assurance that the SBS story is totally wrongSo to start off with, he's claimed Mike Charlesworth will take over the Mariners, but then goes on to say:
— Ray Gatt (@Gatty54) March 21, 2013
@deanrosario lol.I've been wrong many times and will happen again! If I am now then so be it.at least I've been at forefront of this storyProfessional Footballers Association
— Ray Gatt (@Gatty54) March 21, 2013
They've also released a statement on the matter.
PFA MEDIA RELEASE
Sydney: Thursday 21 March 2013
The playing group of the Central Coast Mariners has instructed the PFA to express, in the strongest possible terms, their frustration and disappointment surrounding the negotiations of change of ownership at the club.
Despite been assured on a number of occasions that payment of their salaries would be imminent, these promises have failed to materialise placing the players under enormous financial pressure and hardship. In some cases the players have been unable to pay for their families groceries.Central Coast's official point of view
The players have acted in good faith however there is a limit to their goodwill. The players have agreed not to take any industrial action at this time but the PFA does not rule out this possibility in the coming weeks.
President Simon Colosimo said “Once again this matter shows the precarious nature of being a professional footballer in Australia and ironically comes at a time when the PFA is seeking to negotiate greater contract security with FFA as part of our new CBA”.
Chairman John Poulakakis said “The players have suffered enough. Once again they are being forced to subsidize poor governance and management of the game. The players’ basic entitlements have been trampled on. Whatever is creating this delay must be addressed immediately. It’s time for certainty and the FFA and the club’s Directors to do the right thing by the players and the fans.”
We can state that moving matches from Gosford to Melbourne is not in our plans. #aleagueAnd then you have Ray Gatt again
— CentralCoastMariners (@CCMariners) March 21, 2013
Mariners deal done. Papers to be signed off tomorrow. Mike Charlesworth now controlling owner. Club in good hands
— Ray Gatt (@Gatty54) March 21, 2013What we're going to take a guess at
That a South takeover or relocation was to be used or is going to be used, or has been used as a way of forcing a resolution to the longstanding issues with regards the ownership of Central Coast Mariners. Somebody somewhere at FFA headquarters got fed up with 'the Russians are coming' rumours, and this is how this situation has been resolved.
The best part of all of this
That so many people were caught out this, I suppose rather like our entry into the Singapore Cup a few years back, albeit here on a much funnier scale.
My ultimate position, for future reference
The only acceptable solution for any theoretical South Melbourne A-League bid, is
- a member run and owned club
- called South Melbourne
- playing in blue and white
- with all games in Melbourne
- with approval granted for entry by the members
Whatever the end result of this is
That was the most fun I've had over a three hour period for a long time. Aussie soccer delivers the goods again, and long may it continue to do so.
The time has come...
...for South Melbourne Heart!
Now this is a Facebook page that could surely do with a bit more publicity.
Previously, we here at South of the Border have covered the 'South should merge/takeover with Heart' phenomenon only sparingly, and with the utmost reluctance. Most notably, there was the moment of comic relief at the end of the 2012 AGM blog entry, from January 2013. More substantially, there was this article from December last year.
Still, most of the talk on this issue is refers to possible takeover plans rather than a merger, so it's nice to see someone put up the merger point of view, if only for a bit of variety. On their page they've put up videos from both teams, tried to come up with a home strip - the Paraguay national team style thing on the right hand side, with hooped socks no less - and one person, I assume the page's creator, tried to post a comment on the official South Facebook page in order to advocate for this idea. Sadly, it appears that comment was taken down by one of the humourless drones who monitor that page.
And even though we disagree with this idea on principle, we'll be keeping an eye on seeing how much support - legitimate or otherwise - this campaign is able to muster up.
PS.
And then, just as I hit submit and schedule this article for a later date, someone comes up with this. Good grief. How long until this nonsense ends?
PPS.
And then the Facebook page's creator puts up a thread on the Heart forum, which quickly gets locked. Need him to post a comment here, lol.
Now this is a Facebook page that could surely do with a bit more publicity.
Previously, we here at South of the Border have covered the 'South should merge/takeover with Heart' phenomenon only sparingly, and with the utmost reluctance. Most notably, there was the moment of comic relief at the end of the 2012 AGM blog entry, from January 2013. More substantially, there was this article from December last year.
Still, most of the talk on this issue is refers to possible takeover plans rather than a merger, so it's nice to see someone put up the merger point of view, if only for a bit of variety. On their page they've put up videos from both teams, tried to come up with a home strip - the Paraguay national team style thing on the right hand side, with hooped socks no less - and one person, I assume the page's creator, tried to post a comment on the official South Facebook page in order to advocate for this idea. Sadly, it appears that comment was taken down by one of the humourless drones who monitor that page.
And even though we disagree with this idea on principle, we'll be keeping an eye on seeing how much support - legitimate or otherwise - this campaign is able to muster up.
PS.
And then, just as I hit submit and schedule this article for a later date, someone comes up with this. Good grief. How long until this nonsense ends?
PPS.
And then the Facebook page's creator puts up a thread on the Heart forum, which quickly gets locked. Need him to post a comment here, lol.
Wednesday, 20 March 2013
Friendly against Bergers tonight
Tonight, Lakeside,, 7:30. Even when they get relegated, we just can't get away from them. As usual with the pre-season guff, wrap up will be in the comments section.
Tuesday, 19 March 2013
2012 Season Preview Memorial Entry
Clatter, crash, clack!
Racket, bang, thump!
Rattle, clang, crack, thud, whack, bam!
Who could forget our article from last year on Michael Lynch's imaginary tour of the kitchens of the Victorian Premier League? Well not me, and certainly not Ian Syson nor Lynch himself. Here's a recent twitter exchange.
Anyway, even if you had a look at that blog entry last year, take a look at it again - I added a couple of 'year on' observations, one much sadder than the other. You can decide for yourselves which one fits that bill.
Racket, bang, thump!
Rattle, clang, crack, thud, whack, bam!
Who could forget our article from last year on Michael Lynch's imaginary tour of the kitchens of the Victorian Premier League? Well not me, and certainly not Ian Syson nor Lynch himself. Here's a recent twitter exchange.
@micklynch_age @tweetwhiteline @gatty54 @ecpkoko be time for your vpl preview Michael?
— Ian Syson (@IanSyson) March 18, 2013
@iansyson my guide to multi racial Australia's cuisine you mean??
— Michael Lynch (@MickLynch_Age) March 18, 2013
Anyway, even if you had a look at that blog entry last year, take a look at it again - I added a couple of 'year on' observations, one much sadder than the other. You can decide for yourselves which one fits that bill.
Monday, 18 March 2013
Social club work not progressing
Club must be upfront with its supporters
One of the most anticipated events of this season for our fans was to be the opening of the redeveloped social club. Of course, this redevelopment would not have taken place without the approximately $900,000 grant obtained in our deal with the previous Labor state government to give up exclusive access to Lakeside.
Along with the 40 year lease and the annual stipend guaranteeing a minimum income, the redevelopment was at the cornerstone of the future of the club - a chance to right the wrongs of previous administrations and use our facilities to become self-sufficient.
Earlier this year, at the AGM, the board indicated that it had been in dispute with the current Coalition state government over the funds allocated to the redevelopment. It was said that they were not willing to give the money - the inference being that they were most unpleased with our deal.
It is my understanding that the club has been seeking legal counsel on the matter. However, of equal importance to my mind is that they are open and honest on the matter with the club's supporters.
Yes, there will be a backlash from the usual suspects - but the board may find that they might gain some sympathy and support by displaying some openness rather than pretending that no one will notice. Because come May 11th, the date of our first home game, people will notice. And their reaction then may not be so pleasant.
South of the Border hopes that the club will take the initiative in this matter, and not revert to longstanding past practice of keeping everything to itself.
One of the most anticipated events of this season for our fans was to be the opening of the redeveloped social club. Of course, this redevelopment would not have taken place without the approximately $900,000 grant obtained in our deal with the previous Labor state government to give up exclusive access to Lakeside.
Along with the 40 year lease and the annual stipend guaranteeing a minimum income, the redevelopment was at the cornerstone of the future of the club - a chance to right the wrongs of previous administrations and use our facilities to become self-sufficient.
Earlier this year, at the AGM, the board indicated that it had been in dispute with the current Coalition state government over the funds allocated to the redevelopment. It was said that they were not willing to give the money - the inference being that they were most unpleased with our deal.
It is my understanding that the club has been seeking legal counsel on the matter. However, of equal importance to my mind is that they are open and honest on the matter with the club's supporters.
Yes, there will be a backlash from the usual suspects - but the board may find that they might gain some sympathy and support by displaying some openness rather than pretending that no one will notice. Because come May 11th, the date of our first home game, people will notice. And their reaction then may not be so pleasant.
South of the Border hopes that the club will take the initiative in this matter, and not revert to longstanding past practice of keeping everything to itself.
Tuesday, 12 March 2013
Friendly against Port tomorrow
A chance for South fans to see the favourites for the 2013 VPL title on their own turf, in a game that probably won't provide the embarrasment of our meetings over the previous two seasons - we're hopefully saving that up for the season proper. Game is on at 7:30PM tomorrow at Port Melbourne. Be there and be square.
Sunday, 10 March 2013
Nando going overseas?
Former South championship midfielder David Clarkson released this curious tweet on his Twitter page last week
When I asked if this was futsal or outdoor, Clarkson replied with 'outdoor', which would probably mean Shenzhen Ruby, a second division side, which is puzzling in all sorts of ways.
Another source though seemed to indicate that it was a futsal trip - possibly an AFC futsal club championship. Wait and see if anything comes out of it.
Good luck to @smfc @nandojogado who leaves tomorrow to play in China for Zhenzhen FC.
When I asked if this was futsal or outdoor, Clarkson replied with 'outdoor', which would probably mean Shenzhen Ruby, a second division side, which is puzzling in all sorts of ways.
Another source though seemed to indicate that it was a futsal trip - possibly an AFC futsal club championship. Wait and see if anything comes out of it.
Thursday, 7 March 2013
Friendly against Pascoe Vale on Saturday
Our next friendly will be against Pascoe Vale at 3:00 this Saturday, on Altona Magic's side of Paisley Park. We might well get a better idea of where we'll be at this season. But then again, we might not.
Bit of a shame to be missing out on a Dockerty Cup tie somewhere in the burbs, but South always comes first, doesn't it?
Bit of a shame to be missing out on a Dockerty Cup tie somewhere in the burbs, but South always comes first, doesn't it?
Sunday, 3 March 2013
Fire Up For Friendly Action! (and other news)
South finally step out of the cotton wool for pre-season 2013. First up, a friendly against Malvern City this Wednesday, at Lakeside, at 7:30.
There are reports that recent re-re-acquisition Carl Recchia has done his knee. Not good news if true.
Fernando has changed his number from 15 to 8. Dimi Hatzimouratis has taken up Fernando's old number.
Young defender Matko Budimir has been offered a senior contract.
Marinos Gasparis is reportedly in terrific shape.
And 1960s multiple championship player George Papadopoulos has passed away.
I went and watched North Sunshine lose 2-1 to Sunshine George Cross in the first round of the Dockerty Cup at Chaplin Reserve. Kinnie and the last minutes of the match were the highlights.
And today I went and saw the Friendship Cup between Melbourne Croatia and Sydney Croatia. Not much of a game to be honest (even with four goals), but I did get to see Glen Trifiro play more forward passes in this match than he did for the whole of last season.
Also, some schmo got here after looking up 'south melbourne a-league 2013'. Do you know something that we perhaps don't know? Something that would turn everything we think we know about Australian soccer on its head?
Or do you perhaps think that we know something that we're not sharing? Something so ludicrously amazing to do with your query that, if I revealed it on these pages, eyeballs would literally explode?
Well, I don't. But if you know something, please share! We don't care if its ludicrous.
There are reports that recent re-re-acquisition Carl Recchia has done his knee. Not good news if true.
Fernando has changed his number from 15 to 8. Dimi Hatzimouratis has taken up Fernando's old number.
Young defender Matko Budimir has been offered a senior contract.
Marinos Gasparis is reportedly in terrific shape.
And 1960s multiple championship player George Papadopoulos has passed away.
I went and watched North Sunshine lose 2-1 to Sunshine George Cross in the first round of the Dockerty Cup at Chaplin Reserve. Kinnie and the last minutes of the match were the highlights.
And today I went and saw the Friendship Cup between Melbourne Croatia and Sydney Croatia. Not much of a game to be honest (even with four goals), but I did get to see Glen Trifiro play more forward passes in this match than he did for the whole of last season.
Also, some schmo got here after looking up 'south melbourne a-league 2013'. Do you know something that we perhaps don't know? Something that would turn everything we think we know about Australian soccer on its head?
Or do you perhaps think that we know something that we're not sharing? Something so ludicrously amazing to do with your query that, if I revealed it on these pages, eyeballs would literally explode?
Well, I don't. But if you know something, please share! We don't care if its ludicrous.
Friday, 1 March 2013
Joe Gorman on David Hill's attempted shoving of the NSL into the 'mainstream'
This article is, I think, a well researched and balanced look back at the mid 1990s attempt at de-ethnicising Australian soccer. A bit Sydney centric, but very interesting - and good to see someone analysing the multicultural factors more thoroughly then I'm used to seeing.
Monday, 25 February 2013
2013 memberships released
Here's the advertisement. Looks very slick and professional. Sneaky addition of a 'Hellas' banner in there. Nioe emphasis on the blue and white colours, (in Colin Mochrie voice) if you know what I mean.
Of course the very interesting thing for me is the change in who gets voting rights and access. Previously, it was only social club members - aka South Gold and above -that got access to the South Melbourne Hellas (owner/controlling body of everything) AGM.
And when the FFV brought in their mandatory changes to club constitutions, allowing parents and participants more access and rights at their clubs - I suppose as part of the Crawford reforms - we were told that it would not have much of an effect on us.
But that appears not be the case. Not that I have an issue with it, but certainly others more paranoid than me certainly do, and it wsill be interesting to see how this plays out. After all, this is an election year!
Anyway, the other thing to consider then is, if a regular season pass holder now gets access to both AGMs, why should anyone bother putting in an extra 60 or whatever it is dollars to go for the social club membership?
It's something I thought about for all of about five minutes. I decided to go 'Gold' again for the extra merchandise, the $25 voucher (which is there to encourage me to buy more stuff!) and 10% off social club food and drink, but will completely understand if people start dropping out of that membership category.
Let's not forget though, that the main benefit of taking up any of the membership options is that all the money goes back into the club, and not to anyone else.
Of course the very interesting thing for me is the change in who gets voting rights and access. Previously, it was only social club members - aka South Gold and above -that got access to the South Melbourne Hellas (owner/controlling body of everything) AGM.
And when the FFV brought in their mandatory changes to club constitutions, allowing parents and participants more access and rights at their clubs - I suppose as part of the Crawford reforms - we were told that it would not have much of an effect on us.
But that appears not be the case. Not that I have an issue with it, but certainly others more paranoid than me certainly do, and it wsill be interesting to see how this plays out. After all, this is an election year!
Anyway, the other thing to consider then is, if a regular season pass holder now gets access to both AGMs, why should anyone bother putting in an extra 60 or whatever it is dollars to go for the social club membership?
It's something I thought about for all of about five minutes. I decided to go 'Gold' again for the extra merchandise, the $25 voucher (which is there to encourage me to buy more stuff!) and 10% off social club food and drink, but will completely understand if people start dropping out of that membership category.
Let's not forget though, that the main benefit of taking up any of the membership options is that all the money goes back into the club, and not to anyone else.
Saturday, 23 February 2013
South pull out of Bouzis Cup?
They certainly seemed to be no-shows at today's match day, so I'm assuming they've pulled out of the entire thing. A bit of a pity for the three of us that made the trip out there, but what can you do except blame everyone responsible for this mess, especially those who informed no one
Still, we got to see Altona East draw 0-0 with a youthful Oakleigh side. East probably should have taken all the points, but scoring goals has been their achilles heel for a while now.
Also got to see Malvern against Essendon United. United took the lead, but eventually Malvern's dominance of posession told, with them winning 2-1.
The highlight of the day was heading over to Song Huong on Alfrieda Street afterwards for their fantastic (and cheap!) rice vermicelli with braised chicken, lemongrass and chili, and opening up my schedule to do something else with my time. Maybe go see a cup game next week.
Still, we got to see Altona East draw 0-0 with a youthful Oakleigh side. East probably should have taken all the points, but scoring goals has been their achilles heel for a while now.
Also got to see Malvern against Essendon United. United took the lead, but eventually Malvern's dominance of posession told, with them winning 2-1.
The highlight of the day was heading over to Song Huong on Alfrieda Street afterwards for their fantastic (and cheap!) rice vermicelli with braised chicken, lemongrass and chili, and opening up my schedule to do something else with my time. Maybe go see a cup game next week.
Friday, 22 February 2013
First pre-season matches this weekend
Against Westvale on Saturday, against Old Camberwell on Sunday. Check the results/fixture tab for details, but don't blame us if something goes awry. Reports are that we'll be using youthful sides anyway.
Monday, 18 February 2013
Dutch striker signed + and confirmation of three outs
We've signed a new Dutch striker, one Renco Van Eeken. Apparently here to study, he was an off the street acquisition. He seems to have played in the third and fourth tiers of Dutch football, which as far as I can tell are mostly amateur. The brains trust are very excited about this player. Here's hoping he proves them right. The video footage available of him is promising, though most of us will reserve judgement until he starts performing for us. I still miss Jasper Valentijn.
On the way out are Steve Burton, Jason Saldaris and Glen Trifiro. I liked Burton, his finishing and strength were very good, but it doesn't appear to have worked out for some reason. I thought Saldaris was very unlucky not to get more of a go last season, especially considering Peter Gavalas' nightmare run. Glen Trifiro just never really got going in his year long South stint. Reports from some Sydney United people suggest that he's looking good during their pre-season. South of the Border wishes all three players well in their future footballing careers.
On the way out are Steve Burton, Jason Saldaris and Glen Trifiro. I liked Burton, his finishing and strength were very good, but it doesn't appear to have worked out for some reason. I thought Saldaris was very unlucky not to get more of a go last season, especially considering Peter Gavalas' nightmare run. Glen Trifiro just never really got going in his year long South stint. Reports from some Sydney United people suggest that he's looking good during their pre-season. South of the Border wishes all three players well in their future footballing careers.
Friday, 15 February 2013
FFA announces Claytons Second Division
It's the second division you have when you're not having second division.
There was a bit of excitement caused on the forums - and nowhere else really - about the FFA launching the findings of their National Competitions Review. As far as I'm concerned, there was no need for that excitement, but people in offices have got to lower their productivity somehow.
FFA Cup coming? It's been coming for years now, not that I see it as a priority. Promotion and relegation? In a few years, maybe, but we'll make it as hard as possible for A-League teams to drop and for state league teams to go up.
Again, no surprise and from me, no complaints. I don't care what the 'purists' have to say, but just because it may be 'traditional' in other countries, it doesn't mean it would work here.
The other thing to get some people in a flutter was stuff that was released last year, namely, the player points cap system to be used for the revamped state leagues. It got some people hot under the collar. 'What will happen to 42 year olds! What about club loyalty! What about our juniors!'
Some Sydney Olympic fans should seriously learn how to read through a document before predicting the end of the world. Maybe they should also take a leaf out of Matthew 24:36
The time to get more excited and panicky for South fans is when the FFV eventually gets around to releasing the criteria for its adaptation of the NCR. At the South AGM back on the Australia Day long weekend, we were told the FFV would release their criteria within a couple of weeks. We're still waiting.
![]() |
| Example of a squad list, under possible NCR guidelines. I saw this last year at an FFV information evening. Click to enlarge, |
FFA Cup coming? It's been coming for years now, not that I see it as a priority. Promotion and relegation? In a few years, maybe, but we'll make it as hard as possible for A-League teams to drop and for state league teams to go up.
Again, no surprise and from me, no complaints. I don't care what the 'purists' have to say, but just because it may be 'traditional' in other countries, it doesn't mean it would work here.
The other thing to get some people in a flutter was stuff that was released last year, namely, the player points cap system to be used for the revamped state leagues. It got some people hot under the collar. 'What will happen to 42 year olds! What about club loyalty! What about our juniors!'
Some Sydney Olympic fans should seriously learn how to read through a document before predicting the end of the world. Maybe they should also take a leaf out of Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only
The time to get more excited and panicky for South fans is when the FFV eventually gets around to releasing the criteria for its adaptation of the NCR. At the South AGM back on the Australia Day long weekend, we were told the FFV would release their criteria within a couple of weeks. We're still waiting.
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